This Bonus Episode of the Miracle Renegade Podcast was recorded just days after the murder of George Floyd, and months into the COVID-19 pandemic. Hosts Maureen and Christian talk about what the road to ultimate freedom will look like in the wake of these tragic events, while also sharing a miraculous stance on the Black Lives Matter movement and the most effective path to healing.


“Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can so that.” – Reverend Martin Luther King, from his book Strength to Love

From the Colorado Times Recorder: “Thousands of Denver Protesters Face Down on Ground Chanting “I Can’t Breathe”

“Your assignment could be stated thus, except no compromise in which death plays a part.” – A Course In Miracles [M-27.7]

In these special release episodes of Miracle Renegade, Maureen and Christian take the covid-19 conversation to the Soul.

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Black Lives Matter and The High Road to Ultimate Freedom

Maureen: [00:00:00] Our last podcast  we were talking  a little bit about the death of death, pretty much.  That it’s not something that we in a Miraculous world are letting rule our lives. In the world of the eternal, which is the world of the miraculous,  there’s always an “and then there’s this.” So that includes when we leave our physical body – there’s more.

Right now we’re experiencing something in the United States that’s really life changing for many people, hopefully for the better. now, Not only are you experiencing a pandemic, we’re experiencing civil unrest to a large degree as a result of the Tragic really, terrible circumstances surrounding the death of George Floyd.

Christian: [00:00:45] Yeah.

Maureen: [00:00:46] So let’s talk about the elephant in the room. Christian is a black man. I’m a white woman  and  we want to talk to this in a way that we’re exposing where’s the Miracle here. Where’s the Grace here. And this one happens to be a Miracle in the making, depending on how we view it and what road we choose to take, the high road or the low road.

If we take the low road, we’re just continuing on the same path that we’ve been on all along.

Christian: [00:01:13] Yeah. George Floyd, Brianna Taylor, I mean the countless others that  for me, it’s a symbol of what’s always been going on. This injustice that’s been going on, so I understand why people are out there right now, but… I – I don’t see the Miracle in how we’re doing things. Um, I’ve been to protests before and nothing really happens. it’s just a lot of people standing around and agreeing. Right now they’re pushing for like the cop got charged for murder. Right? And that’s like a, it’s still a small bandaid on this institutional racism and prejudice –

Maureen: [00:01:50] But it feels like a victory of sorts.

Christian: [00:01:52] Uh, yes and…

Maureen: [00:01:53] Somewhat? … for people.

Christian: [00:01:54] Yeah. ‘Cause. Yes, it’s it’s a step forward towards, um, holding people accountable for what’s going on. But in a spiritual sense, in like a human sense really, like what does this actually…

Maureen: [00:02:07] Does not feel  really very good for anybody.

Christian: [00:02:10] Yeah.

Maureen: [00:02:10] The whole situation feels as though it’s Soul sucking.

Christian: [00:02:14] Yeah.

Maureen: [00:02:14] Literally. You can feel this, it was sort of like pouring acid on a gaping wound, that people were in a kind of vigilant mode in their own lives, trying to stay out of fear,  but walking this fine line where you never knew, if you could feel depressed or sad or confused about the world circumstances, and then you have this big gut wrenching situation happen on top of it, where way too many people were exposed to terrible tragedy, way too apparent that it was in living color in front of our faces.  This is something you can’t ignore if you want to live on a planet that is an any way inhabitable.

Christian: [00:02:56] And, and surprisingly, that vigilance has worked for us. Like, uh, before people would have been their – their attentions would have been split three ways, four ways,  but there is no way to ignore what happened right now.

Maureen: [00:03:11] Yeah, it’s so in our faces. Which is a good thing in some regards. Now I want to just explain a little bit about how human evolution, happens   so that we can understand what’s happening right now in that context of human evolution. When we feel as though we’re in despair, and there’s just no way out, there’s this malaise that takes over. That’s a feeling of not really being alive, even though you’re breathing and inhabiting a body on planet earth.


People get used to it, but it doesn’t ever settle with the Soul. The Soul is Unbounded and Free. So whatever body you’re in, whatever color, whatever.

Anything about your physical body is here to promote the freedom of the Soul, of the Spirit. That’s the only reason we have bodies is, as vehicles of communication, that ultimately communicate that we are Love and only Love and that we want to live in that Unbounded, Free State. But getting back to how we evolve as human beings,  when you feel despair  anger is a step up the ladder towards peace. When you feel despair, it’s like you could just lay in bed all day and you’re nothing. Your freedom is nowhere in evidence. When you feel anger, you can feel an emotion of some kind.  And the thing I think that people are trying to get to here now is that – Enough. Enough! This wound has been exposed so many times and we’ve gotten so little result from seeing the problem. That it’s time to focus on a solution,  but when we feel anger and stay there and then justify it by doing actions that we know at our core, do not feel good. Even if you walked away with a whole armful of things that you looted, you don’t feel good about that, because that is not in alignment with our Soul.

Christian: [00:05:16] Well, uh, the looting is just a part of the anger. I’d like to believe in the ideal, right? Um, that we’re all one Soul, but that cop is also a part of this “all”. Like, this is what I’ve learned, that we’re all one. So the cop, George Floyd, both of those men are a part of us. But one of them did not listen to the ideal that you’re saying, he was actually just a part of this machine that he was created

Maureen: [00:05:47] the insanity…

If we want to believe that we as human beings are not insane, the only antidote to that is a loving stance – a present, kind, loving stance. It’s the only thing that heals. So when we’re in that place where we feel that anger is a step up on the ladder towards being empowered, then the next thing we want to look for is, how can we see love in this? How can we allow for this to be the “and then there’s this…” that ultimately promotes more freedom and more equality and, and consideration beyond just the body and the skin color. Just that we all have a human psyche. We all have a part of us that’s not only moral, but has a high regard for human life. It loves this being on this planet in a body to experience everything as much as we possibly can.

Christian: [00:06:48] So we’re talking about the individual right now, but  with looting it’s a mob mentality. It’s a collective. So what is that then?

Maureen: [00:06:56] It’s that frustration, and then there are people who think that you’re going to find yourself feeling vindicated, or have some kind of justice served if, if you are able to cause as much pain as someone caused to you.

Christian: [00:07:13] Yeah.

Maureen: [00:07:13] Now to make this one really clear, we’re going to have to go way to the top of the mountain right now, so we can see this from a Miraculous perspective. First of all, there is no death.  We are all sucked into the tragedy of the story, primarily because we believe in this as finite for George Floyd. What I believe is that he chose to make a statement with his life. And I truly believe that on a Spiritual level we know the beginning, middle and end of our own stories here on earth. And I believe that he came here to make a statement with his life. You know, anyone can wake up to who they truly are up until the last moment of your last breath.

Christian: [00:07:55] Yeah.

Maureen: [00:07:55] I just want to say something here, that he said while the breath was being taken away from him, his physical body – remember you come in with your first breath, you’ll leave with your last – with one of his last breaths, he said, “Mama, I’m through.”

Christian: [00:08:13] Mmhm.

Maureen: [00:08:14] You know, when I first heard it, I paid attention to that because our Souls begin to know that there’s more as we’re exiting. You know, if someone’s in a tragic car accident, many times you’ll hear people say “I was above my body, watching the paramedics work on me” if they’ve come back from near death experiences. You know, we’ve already said , the reason I can speak about death, very clearly and with authority, is because I’ve been out and came back. So I understand that as soon as you leave your physical body, you are free. You are getting the freedom that we always seek as human beings that seems evasive and elusive, even white males or else they wouldn’t be so insistent on having power. You don’t insist on having power if you know, you already have it.

Christian: [00:09:01] Hmm.

Maureen: [00:09:01] The Divinity of us is All-powerful. If you are in sync and at one with the Divinity of you, you know, you are All-powerful. Even to the point that you transcend death. So now watch, he said, “Mama, I’m through.” And people who believe in the finite are only seeing that as  I’m through with fighting or struggling with the cops, or fighting for his last breath or he’s through – done with the world. What if he came through into the Light, into his mother’s arms, into the Light of the Divine? Truly, every being that we’ve ever loved is waiting for us on the other side, to usher us into the peace and ease and bliss of a freedom of unboundedness. So I truly  believe as someone who’s miraculously oriented, that he was released from that physical body before he passed away, into the Arms of the Divine, into the arms of his mother,  into and of and through the Light.

Christian: [00:10:02] I get why you see that because you’re a person who lives through peace and understands this, but if his death was so peaceful wouldn’t it cause more peace?   When you see that image, that image is a symbol of what people have felt for   all their lives. And it’s a, it’s a sickening feeling

Maureen: [00:10:24] It is a sickening feeling.

Christian: [00:10:28] Like, as peaceful as he went,  toward his mother’s arms, we’re all left here saying that’s wrong. Why did that happen?

Maureen: [00:10:38] True. And it is because we have such finite beliefs. Truly, if you knew what  people who’ve had near death experiences know, or any Divine Being who isn’t beholden only to a human body, they all know that that’s a release into grace. So. You know we see that as an assault  and the worst thing you can do to someone.

Christian: [00:11:00] Yeah. But it’s also uh, I would like my own choice, you know?

Yeah, exactly.

I don’t want to have a knee on my neck –

Maureen: [00:11:07] Yes.

Christian: [00:11:07] Because I might have forged a check, allegedly.

Maureen: [00:11:12] Really! Allegedly…

Christian: [00:11:12] Yeah is such a small…

Maureen: [00:11:14] So inappropriate, and I do again, see this as a symbol of all of our psyches being done with this whole world of separation, that we’re tired. We’re tired of treating each other this way. But make sure that when we rise up, we’re not going down deep, low into a pit of anger and fear and pain. Rise up, like many peacable people are doing in going out to the streets and having a voice now.  Be sane about this. When you want him to be having a transition of his own choice, well then you have to do things yourself that cause peace in your world and your immediate world, recognizing that that will contribute to peace.

Hopefully through this podcast, we’re showing people, look, we’re all the same. But that does mean that we’re all the same in that there is no death for any of us. We are eternal beings. So if we get all wrapped up in the chaos. The very thought that death is real causes us to have a misperception about the entire thing.   

Christian: [00:12:19] Yeah. Yeah so, this whole situation that definitely brings up this, uh, internal struggle that I have between what I’m learning  universally, about life, and then being here in this world. There are realities that we take for granted and at what point do, do we do something and act as a person living on this planet?

Maureen: [00:12:49] Who has a high regard for the planet and other human beings.

Christian: [00:12:52] Yeah, like –

Maureen: [00:12:52] That must be part of the equation there, because if you’re just going out to vent your frustration and that begets more frustration because more violence happens and more unconsciousness holds sway and takes precedence, then that is not doing anything. So you asked  such an important question. How do you know when to act? When you can get into your own space peacefully and know who you are, and honor who you are and respect who you are as a person who does deserve a very peaceable transition into the next experience of life from this human experience. If you know that, then you’re going to make choices that mean that – out loud. You’ll make choices that come from peace. So once you feel that you’re in a place of peace, if you can sit with all this and the pain and the frustration and the, the raw in quotes “reality” of this as the only reality for many people – there’s a greater reality with a capital R, remember.

Christian: [00:13:57] Mmhm

Maureen: [00:13:58] If you can sit with this and sit with this and sit with this and let yourself come to a place where you are not only angry and confused and, and  feel rage, which can feel justified, but can get to a peaceful place within yourself to know that your voice matters, But your silence also matters the next step you’ll take will be peace. And if you can take a step that’s peaceful, then you go out.

Christian: [00:14:28] Hmm.

Maureen: [00:14:28] Then you’ll be the answer and the solution.  I get it, people feel like, come on, we’ve been peaceable enough. We’ve laid over, played dead. We’ve gotten killed for that.

Christian: [00:14:37] Yeah .

Empathizing with Anger

Maureen: [00:14:38] I understand the frustration. Not as much as you. But I do understand what it feels like to be disregarded and disrespected because of the body you inhabit. And I do understand that it feels really good to have a collective of people who are rising up, even if it is an anger, because it does feel better than having no power. But you have to remember that when you respect somebody and let them vent their rage or their anger, there has to be a Light at the end of that tunnel. And somebody has to hold the Light.

Christian: [00:15:14] I think  a lot of the looting  it’s an attack on the institution, because the institution is what empowers this whole thing. If this was just a rogue cop doing this one crazy guy. That’s one thing, but it’s the fact that it keeps happening and there’s a system behind it. I’m not justifying what’s going on with the anger and the looting. I’m just saying that it’s, it’s also a mob. So like it’s not, I know the news already does a great job to point out that these people are dangerous and we shouldn’t listen to them, but it’s, it’s not that –  it’s anger, that’s taken over the people. And when you do angry things, you don’t do the smartest things. Everyone knows that. We don’t have to point that out as  the end all be all of this group. It’s going to evolve into something else.  It needs time. It’s only been like four days.

Maureen: [00:16:07] Right. Right. And it’s been such a festering wound for so long. Again, I totally get how anger feels like a step up the ladder and much, much better than feeling helpless and hopeless. That is a step in evolution. But  if you’re someone who has a propensity to  exhibit your anger at other people, take it home. Let yourself feel that that anger is justified. in a way. And what are you going to do about it that’s purposeful? How can you show that you’re a person bringing the Light to this darkness. Now I want to read something from Martin Luther King:   

Christian: [00:16:47] Hmm.

Maureen: [00:16:47] “Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that.”

Christian: [00:17:03] Hmm.

Maureen: [00:17:04] We have to go back to those kinds of voices right now, Martin Luther King had a peaceable voice  in the midst of multiple insane situations.

Christian: [00:17:14] Yeah.

Maureen: [00:17:15] Now look, we want to honor this man’s memory and bring it to light right now because he’s done so much, but then there’s been 25 steps back since he moved things forward. It’s time to take this peaceable message and use it to show that, you know, I truly believe the stronger one there was George Floyd. He was being someone that, although he was about to leave this planet till his last breath was peaceable.

Christian: [00:17:50] Hmm. Yeah.  The whole thing with Martin Luther King is he used love as a weapon. He said, I’m going to love you no matter what you do. And he said it to the people, beating them , sicking dogs on him. And when people saw that in the newspaper that these people weren’t doing anything, but they were still being attacked by authorities that’s when the movement started.

Maureen: [00:18:11] Right.

Christian: [00:18:11] But right now, you don’t see that. You only see the parts in the news that are showing the people rioting and looting but it’s literally in any group, it’s probably 2% of this massive group.

Maureen: [00:18:24] And they may be peole who came in just to take advantage of the situation who have no vested interest in peace.

Christian: [00:18:29] And there have been undermining attempts to put people in there to cause rioting to put that on the news. And it’s been documented, it’s been done before, it’s a riot tactic just to break apart the message  , it’s, it’s a dirty game, so it’s not just like this one thing that we’re seeing. It’s just what they want us to see.

Maureen: [00:18:51] The protest that I’ve found to be the most inspiring and even beautiful was the one that I just saw even this morning  that’s happening in Denver – I believe it’s Denver – people were laying down face down in the same position that George Floyd was when he was being snuffed out by  the police officer – snuffed out of this life and released to his eternal life – I must say. But the same position that George Floyd was in when he passed on to the next life.   They have their hands behind their back and they’re laying down and they’re saying, “I can’t breathe.” for, I think it’s eight minutes and 39 seconds or whatever it was that he was held down.

Christian: [00:19:33] Yeah. It’s beautiful.

Maureen: [00:19:34] It’s beautiful because they’re doing it in unison. They’re doing it as a symbol of their solidarity and they’re doing it in a way that it makes a profound statement.  Very difficult to lay down there on the ground and say, I can’t breathe and not feel oneness with this man and this situation.

Christian: [00:19:53] That’s closer to Martin Luther King, then the news is showing.

Maureen: [00:19:56] So close… or to Gandhi or to anyone who says, let me embody what it is that I want to surmount and supersede and transcend. Let me show that I can supersede and transcend this. When they get up, they get up in solidarity. When they get up, they get up knowing more clearly what it feels like to be put in that position and will not abide  in a world where this still exists and not say something about it or do something about it, but do it peacefully.

Reading from ACIM This short paragraph from A Course in Miracles  talks about death directly, just for everyone here to get a better handle on what this situation could mean for the evolution of humankind:

“Your one assignment could be stated thus, except no compromise in which death plays a part. Do not believe in cruelty nor let attack conceal the truth from you. What seems to die has been misperceived and carried to illusion. Now it becomes your task to let the illusion be carried to the truth. Be steadfast but in this, be not deceived by the “reality” of any changing form. Truth, neither moves nor waivers nor sinks down to death and dissolution. And what is the end of death? Nothing but this. The realization that the Son of God is guiltless now and forever. Nothing but this. But do not let yourself forget it is not less than this.”

Christian: [00:21:32] It’s a, it’s like what you said earlier that the whole thing is a symbol. It’s, it’s the spark that starts pushing people towards a change.

Maureen: [00:21:42] And what’s the biggest guilt? That we all feel we’re separate from the Divinity that we are. And then when we act that way, it’s chaos. When we know we’re Divine and we know there’s no snuffing that out, then we expand exponentially. This is an opportunity for expansion. This is an opportunity for us to let go of the labels once and for all. Human life is precious. Eternal life is all there is. We walk our way into eternal life with a life lived on planet earth, as though it’s precious and rare and important each and every one of us.